Old School Goths ~ are you seated?

[kambriel]

When a friend brought up having a difficult time thinking of clothing and such from the 80's as being "vintage", it made me think... So, the eighties were about twenty years ago. This means going back an equal amount of time when we were living in the eighties, would bring us to the '60's. I did a lot of antique and thrift store shopping as a teen, and one of my favourite things to find were old, unusual cat eye glasses, beaded cardigans, and cool yet obnoxious fabrics. I really loved my mother of pearl cat eye glasses with the green lenses because they turned the clouds green and made the sky look like it was always on the brink of tornado weather! (Yes, to the little Wednesday Addams that I born to be, this was a *good and exciting* thing.)

At that time, it was totally natural to think of these designs from the sixties as vintage... of course they were. And it's ~really weird~ to think that teens now are as far removed from the eighties as we were from that "Summer of Love". 1987 is to them was 1967 was to me.

Crazy. Are we really on the same par as an MTV commercial for a Moody Blues album? "In a White Room with Black Curtains"...

It makes me think of the scene in Spinal Tap, where the band is gathered around Elvis' headstone at Graceland and says, "That's a little too damn much perspective".

Comments

[http://users.livejournal.com/_siddal_/]

Ha! I can relate. I remember in the 80's when I was shopping with my mom and she voiced her disgust at seeing 60's fashion do-overs in the stores. "I just can't stand to look at them," she said. I'm not disgusted with 80's fashions, per se, but it has brought up a lot of memories and funny correlations. :-) The idea of the fashions of my teenage years being vintage is too funny. But I guess it's true!
In the too much perspective dept., my breaking point was once hearing a Muzak version of a Cocteau Twins song in a grocery. oy!

[kambriel.livejournal.com]

I'm trying to remember what it was... I think it was the Sisters of Mercy I heard once on Muzac! I didn't know whether to laugh or cry ;)

With my mom, it was always the thing of making a big deal of saying who a song was ~actually~ by. Now I find myself doing the same thing!

[agilethief.livejournal.com]

exactly! And the worst part was that when I was a teen I dismissed her comments, thinking, "yeah, maybe so and so did it first, but now its been done right".
I shudder to think kids today are saying the same thing about some of the more recent covers.

[cupcake-goth.livejournal.com]

Remember when HP ran ads for their digital cameras using "Pictures of You" by The Cure? I stared blankly at the TV, then burst into horrified laughter.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_scarlet_ibis_/]

I read that Robert's record company forced him to let them use it. I always feel the need to spread the word about that... Don't want anyone feeling irritated at Robert. :)

[agilethief.livejournal.com]

For me its the Violent Femmes being played for a Wendy's Fish sandwich.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_scarlet_ibis_/]

I KNOW! I was thinking about this just yesterday. Weird.

I recently returned from a trip to CA to see Morrissey. I was in line with a bunch of young kids. I felt so old. I started thinking about how they must see me... and Morrissey. How he's all retro to them. To me he's The Latest Thing. Ha ha. Oh, cruel time.

[kambriel.livejournal.com]

That happened to me when I posted a Cure related story in a Cure lj community, and a member responded that they hadn't yet been born in 88 let alone listening to the Cure at that time. Part of me wonders if they see us as the forerunners or the fogies, but the punk part says, who cares!?! At least no one can say it was "a phase"... ;)

[http://users.livejournal.com/_scarlet_ibis_/]

Yes, but is it me or do you find that many people think it SHOULD have been a phase. My mom took me aside about a year ago (I'm 35.) and told me I'm not a "teeny bopper" anymore and should stop wearing black and being obsessive over The Cure and Morrissey. I'm too old to enjoy these things, it seems. Also, a couple people left comments in my journal telling me I should grow up now. I blocked them, of course. :D

I don't really understand these feelings. It's my identity. If I were to change and start acting like they think I should, I'd be false. I wouldn't be acting naturally.

Do you get that too? Probably not since you've turned it into a career.

prodigal

[kambriel.livejournal.com]

My mom had a double-dose of "it's not a phase" because I've stayed true to myself and my older brother is still punk and owns his own tattoo shop. She accepts who we are, but if my dad were still in the picture, that would be a different story! He thought I "did a great job" when I made myself look like "that guy in the poster" (Robert Smith) for Halloween in 8th grade, but when I did the same look again when we all went out that weekend, he wasn't nearly so impressed ;)

Do you know the song Faith and the Muse song "Prodigal" (from "The Burning Season")? It's deals a lot with what you're talking about. Here are some of the lyrics:

"Mother and Father, Sister and Friend
It's not that I embrace the end
It's simply that I feel too deeply towards what I see around me.
But this is not escape, this is my way.

Brother, Sister I see that you are not happier than me
but you will all pretend to be
to prove there's something wrong with me.
This is not escape
This is my way, and I may or may not change..."

Re: prodigal

[twilight358.livejournal.com]

One of my favorite Faith and the Muse songs. I used it in my senior english class when I made a "soundtrack" for the novel "The Awakening" by Kate Chopin.

Talk about being a classic...

Re: prodigal

[kambriel.livejournal.com]

I always loved it when we had assignments that involved playing music for the class. The teachers couldn't stand it, but the students would always ask for copies later ;)

[agilethief.livejournal.com]

Yep...I heard my step daughter proclaiming herself to be "hardcore forever", and I smiled to myself - "might want to think about the implications of that, princess".
What I meant when I was saying things like that, was that I was going to stay young and cool forever. I feel like I've been tricked by not making my genie wish more specific.
And the worst part is that as "stuck in the past" as I am, part of me yearns to burrow even deeper into it.
Me and my girlfriend will snicker to ourselves sometimes when her daughter makes some intensely sincere yet immature comment. We know better, we know things aren't that simple...but sometimes I get tired of knowing better. Part of me secretly wants to go back to where I could do things like insist us freaks were cooler because we "got it", and do it with a straight face. Where I had passion in place of common sense. Ah well. I'm not articulating this well.

[morbidiqua.livejournal.com]

Makes me feel funny too.

[kambriel.livejournal.com]

It's just odd... I'd like to think we've evolved better with the passing years though :) We're holding our own pretty darn well, if I do say so myself!

[cupcake-goth.livejournal.com]

I meant to reply to your comment, but it took me this long to come up with something other than "Waaaaaah!" ;-)

I remember scouring thrift stores for cool men's jackets (worn with ruffly blouses and long velvet skirts), rhinestone jewelry, and dresses in amazing fabrics. I also have very clear memories of when the 80s Romantic Victorian trend started coming back a few years ago and those items started vanishing out of the thrift stores at an astonishing rate.

(A few years ago, while wandering through an antique mall/flea market, I found a pair of pointy-toe Fluevog witchy boots. "Genuine 80s Vintage Witch Boots!" said the tag. After I got done wincing, I realized the price on the tag was far, far less than I would have paid for them when they were brand new. The cashier remarked on how cheerful I was, and was I having a good day ...?"

Intellectually, I'm fine with the notion of "vintage 80s". Emotionally, it's a whole different story.

[kambriel.livejournal.com]

Waaaaaaaaah, is a perfectly legitimate first response ;) Mine was goofingly along the lines of "whoa, heavy..." ;)

We would have either been great, or horrible, thrift store buddies. I always went straight to the "vintage" (AGH, there's that word!) jewelry section, and wore a lot of old men's blazers ~ especially if they had a weirdly eccentric lining that would show when I rolled up the sleeves.

I only have two pairs of Fluevogs from 93 or so, but oh how I covet them! I would've had a good day finding them at a lower price too :) Remember back when they sometimes made square toed shoes? I thought those were really cool too.

[slipshodsally.livejournal.com]

Do you remember "SASSY" magazine?
I read it when I was 13-14.
I remember drooling over the "Black Out" fashions advert with the buckle boots and dagger leggings waaaay in the back of every issue.
I remember those Fluevogs...I think they were called "swordfish".

[slipshodsally.livejournal.com]

http://www.fluevog.com/gifs_2/fluseum/sword_witch.jpg

[kambriel.livejournal.com]

Yes, they're swordfish :) You can see me wearing the shoe version in the catalogue: http://www.kambriel.com/tiered.html

I vaguely remember Sassy, but ironically, when I was looking for the image I sent you last night, I just happened to stumble upon an old xerox of a page from Bogey's with those very leggings!

I seem to remember sending money for a Black Out catalogue, and they never sent me one. Made it very important to me to always follow through well in my own business ~ you never know what 13 year old is out there on pins and needles! ;)

[kambriel.livejournal.com]

Was Sassy the one that wanted girls to see that they didn't have to look like the people in Seventeen to be beautiful, so they focused more on dramatic looks and vintage styles? I remember a magazine like that which sadly I was only able to find an issue or two of back then, but at least immortalized it in some collage-work!

Taxi had a fantastic issue of black, black, black then too :)

[pvcdiva.livejournal.com]

wandering around St Austell on Saturday there were gaggles of young girls in clothes I remember from the 80's. I was oddly disconcerting...

I'been through and out the other side of my 60's thing, and now that I'm a little older I'm going a generation deeper into bintage territory and going for a more 40's look. Only problem these days is the new day job involves wearing things suitable for knocking round in a warehouse, and I just don't have that kind of thing in my wardrobe and I resent buying it...

[kambriel.livejournal.com]

I can understand not wanting to buy things that don't inspire you personally on some level or that you don't really even want to have in the first place. Hopefully you can find something suitable in the charity shop so at least it won't cost much?

I haven't done the sixties look in a ~long~ time, but everynow and then I still splurge on an item from the seventies, especially if it has an art nouveau revival print! Since I was born at that time, I like to think of myself as an "art nouveau revival". ;)

[panzerkunst.livejournal.com]

I have the same issue playing "old" music at the clubs.

[kambriel.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but most of the new crop of gothlings realizes that music is *good* :)

[panzerkunst.livejournal.com]

Sometimes yes, sometimes it clears the floor.

[kambriel.livejournal.com]

Just makes more room for people with taste to dance :)

I remember once when I was going to make a request with DJ Chris and he asked, "does it have a beat". Ummm, well, no, but I can still dance to it! ;)

[haxan-grrl.livejournal.com]

HAHAHAHA!!!! That's happened to me TONS of times with DJ's! What's even worse....

DJ: Don't think I ever heard of that song or band?
ME: Your a Goth and a DJ, I'm 10 years yongers than you and you never heard "Kiss Kiss Bang Bang" by Specimen
DJ: Maybe if you sing some of the song it will jog my memory.
ME: Ummmm no!


Oh and I agree I love it when the dance floor is empty, keeps us short tiny girls from getting stomped on!

[kambriel.livejournal.com]

Wow, maybe next time you should expose them to the undiscovered wonder of the ultra-rare "Temple of Love" ;)

[agilethief.livejournal.com]

Love that song!

[slipshodsally.livejournal.com]

HA! that very thing happened to me last Friday night!! My friends and I went to a 'new' dance club...they were playing that horrible '94ish booty rap and we look way up in the DJ booth and see it's an old friend of ours. So we start throwing our pocket change at him and he starts playing Nemesis. I swear if you'd had blinked you would have missed it. The bar emptied immediately. A long time ago it might of bothered me, but that night it was a triumphant feeling.

[kambriel.livejournal.com]

I think Nemesis was the first song I ever danced to in a club ~ of course then it was new! Everytime I hear it, I go right back to that time ~ berets, and gelled bangs :)

[shnells.livejournal.com]

growing old is hard man...;)

i know how you feel though. i was trying to be all hip and cool with a younger patient of mine and rattled off all these bands i thought were cool. and he didn't recognize a single one of them. then he said that it was probably before my time.

yeah. i'm counting my greys.

[kambriel.livejournal.com]

Goths are probably one of the first groups of people who don't mind grey hair so much... Especially if they're lucky enough to have it grow in a nice Dave Vanian streak! I tried dying a grey streak in my hair in high school, and I can't help but think that has never exactly been "a trend" ;)

[twilight358.livejournal.com]

I'm only 18 and I already have natural gray hair! I can't wait until the rest catches up.

[knome.livejournal.com]

The thing I've noticed is that music from the 80s is absolutely not thought of in the same way that I thought of music from the 60s when I was a teen. There are whole gaggles of groups of teens that are 80s and early 90s music whores. That just did NOT happen in the 80s. You were either a metal head or a pop music whore. End of story. Of course.. there were no iPods then, and motels still had the 'Color TV!' signs. Althought there was the Sony Walkman. :)

Essentially, good music from the 80s sounds suspiciously similar to good music from now. Things are flattening out since corporate rock took over and we don't have the sharp generational changes we have had since the turn of the century. Sure, there is rap and grunge (and any number of sub genres), but only rap is any sort of departure of significance.

[kambriel.livejournal.com]

See, I was the weirdo who on occasion ~could~ be found with some Bob Dylan or other "old" music on my Walkman ~ of course that would be between other tapes like The Cure and Violent Femmes, etc... I know what you mean though, it was pretty much preppy/waver-punk/metalhead and practically everyone fit into one of those. Luckily, I had friends in all "categories" (a necessity when you're one of the only weirdo's around), so we all amused eachother ;)

[colombenoire.livejournal.com]

"That's a little too damn much perspective."

HAHA, it certainly IS!

One of my co-workers is 22 and is crazy about the reworked 80s clothes kids are wearing now. Kids. I actually say that without irony sometimes. Anyway.. this woman wears turquoise pouf shirts, footless tights with metallic flats, plastic jewelry, oversized V-neck sweaters, hot pink vests, all the stuff I remember kids wearing when I was in high school. To her, it's "retro." RETRO!

I think your comment about younger goths recognizing the quality of "old" music is true too. I've met a few younger goths (17-23 years old) who are into Xmal and Sex Gang and stuff like that.. I'm amazed they found it, considering it's only just starting to be played again in the clubs after more than a decade of gothic disco. Music is coming back around though, just like the clothes.

I will weep for joy if Fluevog brings back the Swordfish granny boots. Weep! Joy!

[kambriel.livejournal.com]

Sometimes I'm surprised at how much of "our" music the younger generation knows about and listens to, but I have to remember we live in the age of the internet where so much information is just a few keystrokes away...

I still can't get over people talking about "doing their research" like it's a course or something! It's very strange... It used to be that we had to have a friend in-the-know, or take a risk ordering something out of some low-budget xeroxed magazine to discover something new. It would take weeks or months to find things ~ rummaging through used bins, etc... Now they can just listen to an MP3 of anything new (or old) that they want to in a matter of minutes.

"I'm just a simple caveman." ;)